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| − | == OK ==
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| − | OK everything is cleaned up. VP2 was renamed to TIP because we shouldn't use VP2 as an acronym. I also think we should discourage camel case in all cases, either "TIP" for the start of a category or template name and "tip" when it's in a class, as it is now. "TiP" should never be used and we should also not have "Tips" for gamers, we should have "Hints".
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| − | anyhow, rather than working at cross purposes how about you tell me what is high on our priority list and I can work on that. –<font face="Verdana">[[User:Xenocidic|<font color="black">'''xeno'''cidic</font>]] ([[User talk:Xenocidic|<font color="black">talk</font>]])</font> 12:59, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
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| − | : You'd have to speak with Jim, if you feel "TiP - Standard" is an inappropriate tab label. I think it's been conventional use on the forum, though, and that people recognize the meaning of TiP in a forum post.
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| − | : Since I already use tip for styles and TroubleInParadise for template names, that's not a problem. I do think, though, that a template name should be spelled out full, as I'll explain. To be frank about using tip in classes (instead of spelling it out), there's much more likelihood of future game conflicting with those three letters, than if we used the full name, however, it's a reasonable trade off so the class names aren't absurdly long.
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| − | : I'm more concerned about using TIP outside of classes, alone, as in {{tl|TIP}}. I think acronyms will run into the same problem as JfF (or JFF as you prefer). We should avoid using terse names for categories or templates that might conflict with future terse names.
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| − | : I think template names should be "sortable/groupable," similar to a list of image names. If we start all [[Quackberry]] pics with "Quackberry"..., then it's easy to spot all of them, and/or see if any are missing or misnamed.
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| − | : So, my suggestion would be to do {{tl|Category-TroubleInParadise}} for a template that transcludes the "Trouble in Paradise" category. It would make it easier to both spot all the category-transcluding templates, and also recognize what the template did. Surely that would be easier to maintain, edit, and/or organize than a variety of {{tl|TIP}}, {{tl|Arctic species}}, {{tl|VPC}}, ... templates throughout the template namespace.
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| − | : I think there's a difference between a tip and a hint. A tip is an outright piece of information or advice, where a hint is an indirect suggestion without necessarily giving the full details. But, I'm going to leave that up to Jim if he wants to change the sidebar wording.
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| − | : As for something that would be very helpful, and based on your idea/contribution, I would love to see all the hardcoded categories get replaced by transcluded categories. I think that's an excellent suggestion/approach that you're recommending. How do you feel about making templates for every existing category (but with slight adjustments)? I think the types like [[:Category:Evolved]] should end up in a template called {{tl|Category-EvolvedSpecies}} instead of {{tl|Evolved}} or {{tl|Category-Evolved}}. I'm not suggesting we also change the category names at the same time, just that we use better-qualified template names to match what the categories probably should have been called. That way, we can support a future {{tl|Category-Arctic}}, as you had suggested, if we decide that a top-level category is needed to hold arctic articles and sub-categories.
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| − | : If you could make them up, but let me know before you transclude them, I'd like to take a quick glance at them first, please.
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| − | : How's that sound? --[[User:FeralKitty|FeralKitty]] ([[User_talk:FeralKitty|talk]]) 13:53, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
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| − | ::That sounds good. Can we shorten it to just {{tl|Cat-}} like {{tl|Cat-EvolvedSpecies}} or something? or {{tl|CAT-}}?. –<font face="Verdana">[[User:Xenocidic|<font color="black">'''xeno'''cidic</font>]] ([[User talk:Xenocidic|<font color="black">talk</font>]])</font> 14:03, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
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| − | ::: Is there a significant advantage to the shorter name, besides being easier to type? It just seems less readable to me.
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| − | ::: We didn't abbreviate the classes -- it's species-tip-content, not spec-tip-cont -- or other template names, so I'm not convinced yet that we should abruptly switch to a different style mid-stream. --[[User:FeralKitty|FeralKitty]] ([[User_talk:FeralKitty|talk]]) 14:18, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
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| − | ===categories===
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| − | Here are the proposed templates, example being the evolved one that's already created
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| − | <nowiki>[[Template:CAT-Species-Arctic]]
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| − | [[Template:CAT-Species-Aquatic]]
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| − | [[Template:CAT-Species-Cryptid]]
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| − | [[Template:CAT-Species-Domestic]]
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| − | [[Template:CAT-Species-Evolved]]
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| − | [[Template:CAT-Species-Flying]]
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| − | [[Template:CAT-Species-Nocturnal]]
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| − | [[Template:CAT-Species-Sour]]</nowiki>
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| − | This way they can be sorted properly and it's easier to type rather than Category-EvolvedSpecies. I also think typing category out in full could lead to confusion - is it a template or a category? Let me know before I go ahead though, rather than having to rename them if you still want them to say Category in full. –<font face="Verdana">[[User:Xenocidic|<font color="black">'''xeno'''cidic</font>]] ([[User talk:Xenocidic|<font color="black">talk</font>]])</font> 14:27, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
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| − | :: That's a '''much''' nicer sort order, and also fits '''much''' better with the -qualifier convention. Awesome suggestion!
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| − | :: I think I still would like to spell it out in full, please. Human-readable names are simply easier to read than something like CAT-Spec-Fly. --[[User:FeralKitty|FeralKitty]] ([[User_talk:FeralKitty|talk]]) 14:37, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
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| − | *[[Template:Category-Species-Arctic]]
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| − | *[[Template:Category-Species-Aquatic]]
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| − | *[[Template:Category-Species-Cryptid]]
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| − | *[[Template:Category-Species-Desert]]
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| − | *[[Template:Category-Species-Domestic]]
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| − | *[[Template:Category-Species-Evolved]]
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| − | *[[Template:Category-Species-Flying]]
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| − | *[[Template:Category-Species-Nocturnal]]
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| − | *[[Template:Category-Species-Sour]]
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| − | :K, they're ready to roll. just give me the go-ahead. –<font face="Verdana">[[User:Xenocidic|<font color="black">'''xeno'''cidic</font>]] ([[User talk:Xenocidic|<font color="black">talk</font>]])</font> 14:54, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
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| − | :: I just noticed that [[:Category:Desert]] is missing. Other than that, everything looks great, so go for it :) This is '''very helpful and useful''' to the Reorg and future-proofing, thanks! --[[User:FeralKitty|FeralKitty]] ([[User_talk:FeralKitty|talk]]) 15:06, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
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| − | :::Ok, doing now. I must apologize, I am starting to see the big picture and understand where you are trying to go with all this. I just like complicated templates so much but yesterday was definitely pretty nonproductive! =) –<font face="Verdana">[[User:Xenocidic|<font color="black">'''xeno'''cidic</font>]] ([[User talk:Xenocidic|<font color="black">talk</font>]])</font> 15:16, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
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| − | ====renaming the species categories====
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| − | OK, pretty sure the species are all taken care of. the categories themselves should probably be renamed to [[:Category:Species - Evolved]] or something of the sort but no rush on this because it's just 1 change in the templates. Do we want a top level template {{tl|Category-Species}} to put onto the categories, or is putting [[:Category:Species]] enough?
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| − | The platform categories should be renamed in line with the above, i.e. [[:Category:Species - Classic]], [[:Category:Species - Trouble In Paradise]]. Thoughts? –<font face="Verdana">[[User:Xenocidic|<font color="black">'''xeno'''</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Xenocidic|<font color="black">cidic</font>]] ([[User talk:Xenocidic|<font color="black">talk</font>]])</font> 16:41, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
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| − | : Great, thanks for taking care of them! As far as actually renaming them, I think there are a couple of things to consider:
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| − | :# The readability of the Category footer. I'm not sure we want it to get too wordy, too long, or too "backwards." Species - Evolved may work find for a sort order, but it's probably not something that a human needs to see, when reading the footer. I don't even know if I'd want to flip it in readable order, and force people to read "species" repeatedly (e.g. [[Sherbat]] would be Categories: Classic species | Trouble in Paradise species | Pocket Paradise species | Flying species | Nocturnal species | Sour species). While I like consistency, it's also a bit long and a bit repetitive. It would be a tough call, and I'm definitely going to let Jim decide that one, if he'd want to change them.
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| − | :# Consistency elsewhere. We'd have to go through everything -- templates, articles, etc. and change old visible references to new references. (Sure a #REDIRECT would handle that but I'm not keen on leaving wrong visible references out there. Still, not a big deal, but we've got more important things to do still, and editing articles to "fix" category names would take time away from others issues that require more attention.)
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| − | : I think the important thing, like you said, is that they can now be changed, easily, if they had to.
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| − | : As for doing Category:Species or the platform ones, I'd say they're not worth the overhead, and there's no benefit. I don't expect us to change any from one name to another, so I wouldn't do anything with/for those categories. I think they should definitely stay in readable order, so the sub-categories on [[:Category:Species]] match the articles, and everything is intuitive. (We don't call the article ''Species - List of Classic'' or ''List of Species - Classic'', so why flip the categories?)
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| − | : Again, if Jim happens to feel differently, they could be done later, but why do them in advance, if it turns out that there was no need to change them. --[[User:FeralKitty|FeralKitty]] ([[User_talk:FeralKitty|talk]]) 17:22, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
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| | ==Next== | | ==Next== |
| | Thank you for tabbing the shops. It's appreciated. Perhaps check for other articles with missing tabs (besides the plants), or see if we've overlooked any other things that need to be done for the game release. | | Thank you for tabbing the shops. It's appreciated. Perhaps check for other articles with missing tabs (besides the plants), or see if we've overlooked any other things that need to be done for the game release. |
Thank you for tabbing the shops. It's appreciated. Perhaps check for other articles with missing tabs (besides the plants), or see if we've overlooked any other things that need to be done for the game release.
