WC's

[LiFE4CCCP]

Surely Wildcard Pinatas cannot be completely random. There must be some factor which contributes towards getting a WC. Like on the Notes from the Developers they hint that a full moon be up and u have nocturnals. Surely there cannot be code anywhere in the universe that can implement a 1 in 1000 chance and someone get one at 68 and 71 or whatever he has obtained a WC at.

[GhostGundam]

The chances of getting a Wild Card is completely random. Anything else is just a false rumor.

The only confirmed way to increasing your chances is to have 1 or 2 Wild Card parents.

[LiFE4CCCP]

what im saying is for something to be completly random, it must have an infinite number of possibilities..
The CPU of a 360 cant possibly comprehend to issue random pinata. So with that in mind, there MUST be some factors which contribute toward getting a WC. If you want to say its random then so be it. But in your garden there are plenty of factors which can contribute and i refuse to accept that WC pinatas are dished out like the lottery. Just think about it. When you breed a Pinata, the computer game will get a preformatted code relevant to your pinata and implement it in your game hence the birth of a new pinata. What your saying is, not only does the computer game implement this code of a new pinata, but it also decides if it wants to place an extra line of code, thereby modifying the pinata which has been created. Therefore i come to my point. You breed your pinata which makes the computer fetch the code and use it to create the pinata egg. Once the pinata has been delivered in an egg, the computer will then implement a new set therefore defining the pinata into its smaller size. Now for the computer to RECOGNIZE that a WC Pinata is to be made, something must of triggered it. The CPU cannot randomly pick up code and place it where it was or else it would be chaos. It can be the smallest thing from the point where the sun or moon is in the sky, to what moon is up or even what time of day it is. Somewhere or something in this game has a trigger point which will make the CPU create a WC Pinata whether its individual to each species or a generic one to all species. Saying its random means you think the CPU has a mind of its own as it can think and do things for itself whereas the truth is, CPU whatever it may be from PC to 360 are manipulated by us for our own personal need hence they cannot think for themselves.

[LiFE4CCCP]

and to further back up my point, how many romances can u get a Pinata to do in the space of 7 pinata days? you can cover alot of pinata in 7 pinata days hence why it takes people so long to find. The key is not just luck, its about being observant to your surroundings as well as trial and error. I bet if someone found a WC which was romanced at 7pm pinata time with the sun just going out of sight and then 7 pinata days later did EXACTLY the same thing, you will get another WC. If you see, the location of the sun and time are the factors which trigger a WC. Its simple logic!

[mcnugget13]

there was a wc born underwater

[LiFE4CCCP]

surely you can see the logic behind this mcnugget?

[Zap657]

Makes sense, I've always thought that there MUST be some unknown factor to this, the WC lickatoad was found on the first succesfull romance! That's not luck, my friend.

[mcnugget13]

yay i do i know what you are saying it is just that there are so many factors to count up the only people that could know one factor would be a person who owns a wild card like the syupent it was born under water or for the newtgat wc wich has not been found but a factor for that could be like no water at in the garden or a certian type of grass romance candy or not the same pinata or a diferent pinata under water or not anther species of pinata how far storkos travels the time of day sour pinata a cluckes use...............etc.

[Zap657]

Like you said, it could be anything:

Time of day
percentage of terrain in your garden
Pinatas in your garden
ANYTHING, THE POSSIBILITIES ARE ENDLESS!!

[mcnugget13]

I have a felling like in every garden once I took care of the dried earth and planted grass I go to birds eye view and see like wavy lines and just like designs in the grass I put dirt it is gone myabe that might have an effect ????? :| :| :?:

[Zap657]

No, I think those are just wavy patterns the grass has

[LiFE4CCCP]

With all that being said, i do beleive Rare intended the "WC Hunts" to be a test of observation rather than luck. The real test is to notice what MAKES a WC. Like mcnugget said, a lot of things can contribute but once you've taken the time to find it, then you are truly good at this game.

But at least people have recinded their opinions that CPU's have a mind of their own. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


So in hindsight, if you DO find a WC be a darling and tell people how you got it. I honestly think its down to time of day and day of week (if you understand) as people have romanced hundreds and not gotten anywhere. All it needs is dedication and time.

[mcnugget13]

I have 2000 newgats and only 1000 dragumflys I would kiss the ground they walk if someone told us how to get a wc

[Zap657]

From now on I shall test things with the eggs :wink:

Edit: I would laugh so hard if it was when a jeli would come out of his cave ( the sightings that have been reported )

[mcnugget13]

I would but can not I am grounded :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :( :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

EDIT:I just thought of some thing why would the devolpers stop at level 108 that number is odd why not 100 or 110 or 105 ??????? :? :? :?: :?: :?: :| :|

[LiFE4CCCP]

u peeps can add me if uwant

GT5 MYETOLSYA

And heres an idea. Instead of the WCF, why not replace it with a Wild Card Database. Can you imagine masses of information such as

WC Profitamole
Romance : 7:30am
Weather : Clear
Day : Every 4 days

Instead of bunging off your well earned WC, donate your information.

[Bwgmon]

BIGsheep sez:
The chances of getting a Wild-Card pinata are completely random. The only things that effect the odds are if one or both of the parents are Wild-Cards.

The guy with the Whirlms just happened to be the 1 in a million.

I'm certian that 1 in a million is like winning the lottery, and that is something that IS possible.

[LiFE4CCCP]

so ur saying u think WC happen cos of a random system? To put it in perspective. Games advertise "Completely 'random' AI". Random and 'random' have very different attributes.

Random = an uncontrollable sequence or event which happens sporadicly or once in a lifetime

'Random' = a predetermined set of rules administered by creators with an aim to try and bring rare occurances


You choose which one BIGsheep is going on about....

[mcnugget13]

Who will make the thread?????

[Cloud7654]

I definately think there are some contributing factors to what causes a Wildcard to be bred; however, I also think that they are so complex and difficult to figure out that it would make it seem almost completely random. I highly doubt it would be something as simple as the time or day of week. Until someone truly finds some surefire evidence that these special circumstances are actually determinable, I'm just going to believe that it is based off of luck.

[mcnugget13]

that is the point of the wcd Wild Card Database to find an answer to wc first we got the brain wich come up with factors then testors to test the factors

[FeralKitty]

what im saying is for something to be completly random, it must have an infinite number of possibilities..


Random doesn't mean rare or unlikely.

Flipping a coin is random, and there's only 2 possibilities. Rolling a die is random, and there's only 6 possibilities. Wildcards work exactly the same, except the odds of an occurance happening is much higher than 1 in 2 or 1 in 6.

Rare employees have stated many times that it's random. It has nothing to do with AI or infinite possibilites or such. It's easy to code a random number generator (e.g. result from 1 to 1000) , and if the right number (e.g. 1000) comes up, then the game gives you a wildcard instead of a normal pinata.

I'm not saying it's 1 in 1000. I'm just using that as an example.

[Zap657]

WC Profitamole
Romance : 7:30am
Weather : Clear
Day : Every 4 days
If it isn't random, we'll need A LOT more info. then that.

[mcnugget13]

true like the items, postion of house, water or no water, how many pinatas are in the garden, the pinata day, price of pinata, how many houses, egg underwater or not, sprinkling water over the egg, holding the egg, price of garden well I am out of ideas :mrgreen: :P

[Zap657]

Which pinatas are in the garden... the list goes on...

[LiFE4CCCP]

i was merely giving an example. dont be so literal :roll:

[LiFE4CCCP]

Feralkitty says
Rare employees have stated many times that it's random. It has nothing to do with AI or infinite possibilites or such. It's easy to code a random number generator (e.g. result from 1 to 1000) , and if the right number (e.g. 1000) comes up, then the game gives you a wildcard instead of a normal pinata.


So your suggesting every game is coded in a different set of code. So i have to breed 445 whirlms for wc whilst my nextdoor neighbour has to breed 1445. i think not.

[FeralKitty]

Feralkitty says
Rare employees have stated many times that it's random. It has nothing to do with AI or infinite possibilites or such. It's easy to code a random number generator (e.g. result from 1 to 1000) , and if the right number (e.g. 1000) comes up, then the game gives you a wildcard instead of a normal pinata.


So your suggesting every game is coded in a different set of code. So i have to breed 445 whirlms for wc whilst my nextdoor neighbour has to breed 1445. i think not.
No. Each game is identical code, but random number generator is seeded, so everyone's game doesn't start with an identical random sequence. (The seed isn't hard-coded, but is based off something external to the code, such as the hardware real-time clock.)

So, using the previous example (1 to 1000), your random number sequence might be:

17, 436, 852, 267, 391, 1000, 205, ...

which would give you a wild-card on your 6th romance, while my random number sequence might not generate 1000 until I'm on romance #2,431.

And, to correct a common misconception, 1 in 1000 doesn't mean it will happen 1 time every 1000 occurrances. It could happen 0 times, 1 time, 2 times or more, in 1000 occurrances.

Trust me, all this probability and statistics about wild-cards have been beaten to death over and over again, but it really is random. You could get one on try #7 and someone else could get one on try #1,291. That's life.

All I can say for certain, is that outside of using wild-card parents to romance, there's nothing that will increase or decrease your chance of getting a wild-card. Not the in-game weather, not the time of day, not whether you've used romance candy or not, not how many pinatas in your garden, etc.

If you want to try to disprove that, you're welcome to record every possible condition when you get a wild-card, but I'm confident you'll find that it can't be repeated under identical conditions, thus showing it was truly a random event, and not based on garden conditions.

[LiFE4CCCP]

so your saying the coding lets the CPU manipulate the data given to it?

[mcnugget13]

Fine :x I will try to come up for factors who else is in also who will make the thread WCD??

[Cloud7654]

so your saying the coding lets the CPU manipulate the data given to it?
The computer isn't manipulating anything. When the pinatas are romanced, it generates a random number X. If X = the number needed to produce a Wildcard, then a WC Pinata is born. Like Feralkitty said, and his explanation is 100% correct, it won't neccessarily mean that you will get exactly 1 out of 1000. If you want proof, go to http://www.mdani.demon.co.uk/para/random.htm and set it as Generate 1 pseudo-random integers between 1 and 1000 allowing repeats. This is essentially what the random number generator used to determine WC Pinatas is. Now since you are allowing repeats, that means that there is a chance that 463 or any other random number > 1 and < 0 could show up twice in 1000 clicks, while the number needed to produce a WC may not show up until say your 2354th click. So you see, the CPU isn't manipulating anything. The only line of code fed to the computer there, other than the code that determines species, egg, size, and all of that, is "Generate Random Integer" and that is what determines the WC. It is not affected by anything around it.

[mcnugget13]

Can will atleast try to see if our meothod will work plz :x :( :) :D :mrgreen: :lol:

[FeralKitty]

so your saying the coding lets the CPU manipulate the data given to it?

Literally, that's what CPUs do. Manipulate (operate on) data, based on coding (machine instructions). That doesn't mean that the CPU is intelligent or the code is different. We're not talking about AI or self-modifying code.

Something like the real time is simply a 32-bit value that the CPU can retrieve from an absolute memory location. Random number generators have been around for decades, and making branching decisions based on a certain result happens over and over and over in code.

Does Uno or Texas Hold'em always give you the same starting hand? No. It's random.

The devs have said wild-cards are random. It's a simple explanation, and the coding for it is simple too. There's no need for complex coding or conditions for wild-cards.

The bottom line is that the devs chose randomness (and not some certain in-game conditions) so that everyone had an equal chance of getting a wild-card. They wanted it to be fair for everyone.

[EDIT - Ah, Cloud posted a nice response while I was composing mine. Thanks!]

[mcnugget13]

can we still try :mrgreen:

[Cloud7654]

can we still try :mrgreen:

You can try but failure is almost guaranteed...good luck...

[mcnugget13]

yay who else is in???

[FeralKitty]

Since this thread is really already about LiFE4CCCP's WCD concept, I propose renaming it, rather than starting a duplicate thread.

Let's see what LiFE4CCCP wants to do.

[Errrm]

BIGsheep is away this week so you'll have to put up with me answering your questions..... and I lie :D

WC can be created through various means the first is the normal random method already spoken about and the second is through BIGsheep's magic wand!!! :!:

@LiFE4CCCP
I'm not sure how much programming you have done but I can confirm for you we can manipulate what's happening in the game using random numbers, it's alot simplier then you make it sound :)

Hope this clears things up.... unless I'm lying and then it will just make things more confusing.

[Egg_noggen]

These sorts of threads have been started so many times and so id just like to say that it is random through vigerous research and test by many major forumers and confermed by a rare developer our very own BIGsheep so i hate to say it but the pipedream of somthing effects it sadly is not true and that it is indeed random.

[LiFE4CCCP]

i was just trying to find some logic behind the WC hunts as you will.
errrm says @LiFE4CCCP
I'm not sure how much programming you have done but I can confirm for you we can manipulate what's happening in the game using random numbers, it's alot simplier then you make it sound :)

:oops: i only done basic stuff on Vis.Basic at college.

[GhostGundam]

LiFE4CCCP, I take it that you are satisfied with the RANDOM idea now?

[LiFE4CCCP]

not satisfied by the definition of Random but seen as though i dont have a choice... :lol:

[Bwgmon]

You could just imagine it as rolling a dice with 1000 sides.

The 1000 MIGHT come up, and it might not come up. The chance is the same for you to roll the same number twice in 5 rolls as it is to roll the 1000 twice in 5 rolls.

Or you could put it into gambling perspectives, like getting a Royal Flush in poker or something.

[jnin]

not satisfied by the definition of Random but seen as though i dont have a choice... :lol:

same here. /=

[Kawigi]

Well, how about we put it this way - would you accept that the occurence of wildcards is pseudorandom in the sense that is typically used in programming? Meaning that while it's deterministic, it doesn't depend on things that you do in the game or that are observable by you?

[Cloud7654]

Well, how about we put it this way - would you accept that the occurence of wildcards is pseudorandom in the sense that is typically used in programming? Meaning that while it's deterministic, it doesn't depend on things that you do in the game or that are observable by you?

One of the best definitions yet! Did you sign up just to reply to his post? :P

[Kawigi]

I'm not sure I'd put it that way, but perhaps. I had almost replied to a few more posts but then realized I wasn't registered yet and decided it wasn't that important. This one poked my programmer sense a little - most online communities I'm involved with have to do with programming specifically, and so while occasionally people will take true principles (e.g. computers are deterministic) and use them to come to false conclusions (or in this case, just conclusions which are unlikely to be true), there is an abundance of people with the specific domain knowledge to correct them.

On this forum, aside from some of the Rare representatives that float around, my programming background is "special", and I felt like I could express what randomness means in computers (or xboxes :-) ) more correctly and clearly than some people could.

I also had some links in the original post (when I'm posting seriously, it comes out more like a paragraph of a blog post than a conversation) to things like the wikipedia definition of pseudorandom and a nice overview page (probably from a class at some University) about how computers generate pseudorandom numbers using linear congruential generators. Links often speak volumes to people who are interested in the most complete answers without resulting in essay-like posts like this one is becomming. Hmm. Guess I should wrap up. Anyways, the forum engine apparently doesn't allow posting URLs when you first register :-)

[mistahkickit]

I asked big sheep the same thing and I think I pissed him off lol:

From: mistahkickit
To: BIGsheep
Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:12 pm
Subject: question for the BIGsheep
Question: Are the occurrences of the Wild-Card Pinatas really that random? Is there anything that could influence the nature of such things to happen. I figured it's something in the game code that spurns it or makes the change what it is. I have a hard time believing it's purely random because each change in the Wild Card pinatas are the same. If it was truly random then if the same species spurned a Wild Card pinata then they would all look a little different. Does the location of a certain item in your garden, layout, etc... Like Feng Shui of gardening to increase the likeliness of something like that to happen.

I know you must be busy but I'm just a bit curious. I love the game and it's driving me insane trying to get one of these for my cinnamonkey. And before i pull any more of my hair out, is their a wild card for every species?

_________________
Still Looking for my Cinnamonkey WC #200 and couting.

[Zap657]

I'm curious to see what he would reply to that :P You could just imagine it as rolling a dice with 1000 sides.
When you put it that way, the odds actually ARE one in a million :P

[mistahkickit]

I'm curious to see what he would reply to that :P You could just imagine it as rolling a dice with 1000 sides.
When you put it that way, the odds actually ARE one in a million :P

I have his reply but don't wanna post it...it was a pm but he seemed a little aggravated. :D

[Cloud7654]

I'm curious to see what he would reply to that :P You could just imagine it as rolling a dice with 1000 sides.
When you put it that way, the odds actually ARE one in a million :P

I have his reply but don't wanna post it...it was a pm but he seemed a little aggravated. :D

Lol, I can't imagine BIGsheep being aggravated. He seems like such a down-to-earth guy. Maybe he gets a lot of PMs like that and he is started to get sick of it.

[BIGsheep]

Lol, I can't imagine BIGsheep being aggravated. He seems like such a down-to-earth guy. Maybe he gets a lot of PMs like that and he is started to get sick of it.
Here's the reply:

From: BIGsheep
To: mistahkickit
Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:35 am
Subject: Re: question for the BIGsheep
Why would I lie? Please re-read my message about wildcards on the forums and you will know what you need to know.

As for one per species, yes, this is the case. Each species also has exactly the same chance of getting a wildcard.

Happy hunting,

BIGsheep

Pissed off, no. Matter of fact, yes. After all, if people are going to read what I've typed and then decide to ignore it there isn't much I can do... apart from get Errrm to lie for me :)

[LordRavenBlack]

I understand where your coming from BIGsheep I've heard you say it a thousand times. People would post questions about WC's in the Wild Card FAQ that were clearly answerd all the time.

And Welcome back. :D

[BIGsheep]

And Welcome back. :D
..with everything intact, too. Looks like buying the insurance was a waste of time :)

[GhostGundam]

And Welcome back. :D
..with everything intact, too. Looks like buying the insurance was a waste of time :)

Of course not! That was for our peace of mind! :lol:

[mistahkickit]

Lol, I can't imagine BIGsheep being aggravated. He seems like such a down-to-earth guy. Maybe he gets a lot of PMs like that and he is started to get sick of it.
Here's the reply:

From: BIGsheep
To: mistahkickit
Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:35 am
Subject: Re: question for the BIGsheep
Why would I lie? Please re-read my message about wildcards on the forums and you will know what you need to know.

As for one per species, yes, this is the case. Each species also has exactly the same chance of getting a wildcard.

Happy hunting,

BIGsheep

Pissed off, no. Matter of fact, yes. After all, if people are going to read what I've typed and then decide to ignore it there isn't much I can do... apart from get Errrm to lie for me :)

That seems much nicer and pleasant now. I guess I took it the wrong way cause I was a little disappointed in the answer and my cinnamonkey WC hunt came to a screeching halt. The monkeys in my garden were driving me bananas.

:D

[BIGsheep]

No worries. The problem with remote conversations is that you can never pick up on the tone or the inflection or words. I believe most national conflicts are started this way.

[mistahkickit]

No worries. The problem with remote conversations is that you can never pick up on the tone or the inflection or words. I believe most national conflicts are started this way.

Exactly! I've had the same problems with text messages, I can never tell when someone is serious are joking as if their serious.

[Telekinesis]

Sorry to bump this, but I found it very interesting. It's an odds system, correct? A pseudorandom number generator. If this is the case, the question shouldn't be about the system itself or the day/week/surroudings inside the garden (since that argument has been put to rest), but rather when exactly the generator is kick-started.

I'm working on some Wild Card strategies myself and have currently found one of them. I just want to tinker with some things (no pun) and I'll report my findings or lack thereof.

Anyhow, I believe people should focus on when the WC comes into play instead of how it does so. Before the egg is dropped off? While it's hatching? Before it's hatching? Etc. Just a thought. =)

-Edit-

Actually, disregard the before/after/during comment. I just found a direct quote from BIGsheep that it happens when the egg hatches. That's actually very good to know, though. I was hoping that was the case and not before it's dropped off by Storkos. So.. the egg decides. Excellent.

[BIGsheep]

All I can say is that if you are trying to figure out a "system" then I wish you well because your odds of finding one are slimmer than that of gaining a wildcard itself.

[Telekinesis]

All I can say is that if you are trying to figure out a "system" then I wish you well because your odds of finding one are slimmer than that of gaining a wildcard itself.

No, I'm not saying that I'm trying to figure out a system. When I said 'system' I was simply talking about the process of how Wild Cards are born, which we all know at this point is basically a shot in the dark and random.

My point is that if the process of a wildcard happens when the egg hatches, then a lot of species will be easier to hunt for their specific wildcard instead of having to go through the romance steps every single time. Save before the hatch, reload, rinse, repeat. Cheating? Maybe. But if it works that way, it's much easier than trying to constantly romance. No maze, no candy, no requirements needed.

This is the only reason I was wondering when the WC is actually decided to be as such. The odds are still the same for finding one, but it's a lot easier to repeat. More repetition equals more chances of finding one.

[BIGsheep]

If that's your system I do indeed wish you well.

I'm not trying to put you off as I'm very happy to see a few more WCs knocking around, but you do realise that half the time it's probably easier to actually romance the little blighters than it is to constantly reload a garden? Not to mention vastly more interesting.

Back on the old forums (God rest her soul) we calculated it took about two minutes to save and reload, not taking into account the time you would then have to wait for the egg to hatch and "issues" around your system by various auto-save triggers, whereas it can take less than a minute to romance a pinata.

Just trying to make you aware of all the facts as others have tried this before.

Which species are you trying for?

[Telekinesis]

I don't see it as putting me off at all. Actually, I appreciate any and all feedback, so thanks. I started out trying for the Cinnamonkey and got one on my 7th attempt. I'm now trying for the Chippo and the maze can be frustrating, so I started to just reload the save right before the egg hatches. I've timed it at a little under two minutes for the whole process. Once in the game, the egg takes around five seconds or so to hatch.

You mentioned issues with auto-save triggers. I'm not exactly sure what you're referring to, but I've had some concern that once I reload, the same number could just be generating over and over again. Is this a possibility? If so, it's probably a complete waste of time. :p

Other than that? I haven't had any issues with it thus far.

Oh, I forgot to comment on it not being interesting. That's definitely true, but it's also the reason that I'm not using one of my main gardens to try with. I'll make some attempts, then go back to playing with my normal save so that it doesn't become so tedious. The only reason that the garden with the Chippos exists is to try for the wildcard.

[BIGsheep]

You mentioned issues with auto-save triggers. I'm not exactly sure what you're referring to, but I've had some concern that once I reload, the same number could just be generating over and over again. Is this a possibility?It's possible. After all, it is random. :)